Fast=Bad?

[briansII]

What's wrong with "fast" rods. Is it a feel thing. A tradition thing. What?

If you read most any fly fishing forum, you'll see plenty of negative opinions about "fast", or "stiff" fly rods. "No feel", or "club" might be things you've read. Very, very little negative is said, when someone mentions softer action rods. "Sweet", or "smooth" are terms used. I'm going to take a wild guess, that the sales numbers for "fast action" rods(Z-Axis, BIIx, ect.), are much higher than say, a Winston WT, or Sage ZXL. If true, why is that?

briansII

[rayfound]

Yeah, I don't get it either, but I am wholly unqualified as a caster to say much, considering I'm not much of a caster.

Oh well.

[RiverRat]

Well I own everything from Sage Z-axis and RPL+ on the fast end to Bamboo on the slow end. Both have their places but I'm certainly evolving back to slow action.

Manufactures love to make heroes out of the long casters and I love to whip out long casts with fast rods, plus certain conditions require them. But I really enjoy "fishing" with slower rods for trout. My hook up ratio is much higher with slower rods. With faster rods I miss fish all the time and wonder.."How the heck did I miss that one? I just think the fast rods quick reaction times causes the fly to pull out to quick. Another thing is that I'm able to give the fly a more natural movement with slower rods. Jigging, skittering, dapping all look more natural with smaller less exaggerated movements when "working" the fly.

shane

[darrin terry]

I think there is a place for fast, slow and medium actions. I just think it's a shame that rod makers usually opt to go faster in new designs. They are leaving a large portion of the market unserved by doing so. Not that there aren't fiberglass rods and bamboo available.

[Pete]

Cause the rod companies tell the comsumer that they really do want to buy "fast" action rods. I believe in the power of suggestion. People will buy the latest and greatest because they think that the manufactures know best. Shoot, if Sage designed it, it must be the latest technology. I gotta have it, it will make me a better fisherman.

Personally, as I have progressed in my own fly fishing journey, I have migrated more toward "slower" action rods. I can feel the rod load better and lay down softer presentations. I went from a fast action Sage to a lower modulus rod, to fiberglass, and finally Bamboo. If you let it, a slower action rod will just about cast itself. I do feel a connection to Bamboo and fiberglass that I don't get with graphite. Ya ya, I know next thing, I'll be wearing flowers in my hair and talking to the trees.

A fast action rod does seem to be better at punching thru a stiff breeze, but that is about the only advantage I can see. A "fast" action may also be a little more forgiving of bad casting habits.

I also tend to steer customers away from the "fast" action high modulus blanks. To me, high modulus equals more prone to breaking if the rod is nicked or scratched. They are strong, but don't seem to have the tensile strength of lower modulus graphite, fiberglass or Bamboo.

Just remember all my opinions are based on me being a slower action junkie. No scientific facts to back any of it up.
Doesn't matter if it is a slow or fast action, people need to learn not to fight the rod.

Sorry, let me step off my soap box now

Pete

[Flyjunkie]

Well, I will tell you from a sizable amount of experience that Fast action rods are the only way to go in the Ocean, The saltwater rod has to do two functions, It has to cast larger, heavier flies, it has to cast often heavier sinking lines and it has to Cast into often heavier winds then any Trout Flyfisher would want to deal with. Secondly it has to be able to put the breaks on stronger, tougher fish then any Trout Fisher will run into. The Rod has to be able to lift, often from directly above a Deep fish. The faster action rods can do this far better then any slower action Action rod can do, the faster Rods have greater backbone.. They will take the abuse a Slower action rod simply cannot take and they certainly do save your arms and upper body in a Longer, tougher fight...
Slower action Rods in the ocean will not absorb the stronger forces involved in the entire routine.. without transmitting alot of that energy right into One's Arms and Body. Slower rods will wear one out at a faster pace then fast action rods will. Certainly there will be some exceptions to this scenario, but on a Whole, it is far better to approach the Ocean with a Faster action rod...

That being said, when i am fishing for Trout with a 4 wt. or Lighter Rig, i prefer slower action rods, because they present the fly a good deal gentler , Their softer action protects delicate tippets better and their whippier tips allow littler trout to give good account of themselves...

Personally I recommend medium actions Rods for beginners because they are more forgiving to the Beginner's Learning to cast and excited Hook sets and Fighting a Fish then Faster action rods... the Beginner gets advantages of the slower action & faster action rods in one comfortable package...

But in the Ocean, faster action rods are "Must Use" in my Book....


DEAN ~~~

[fly addict]

I think of fast action rods as casting rods, Slower action rods are fishing rods. I’m talking about lighter weight rods, not what you might use in saltwater and big powerful fish. A fast action rod is more forgiving and in the hands of a weak caster it can make him look better than he might be with a slower rod. A faster rod should cast tighter loops. At the casting pond the regular target casters compete with fast action rods. Sage XPs are common. If you talk to these same guys most will tell you that they do not use the fast rods when fishing. Again we are talking trout.

I remember talking to a Certified Master Casting Instructor about a very slow action rod that I had brought to the pond. He mentioned that all beginners should learn to cast a rod like the one we were casting. You could feel this rod right down to the grip bend, and you had to slow your casting stroke way down to make it work. Trying to push that rod would just end up in a tailing loop. Does that rod fish well, the answer is yes. Will it make a super tight loop; the answer is not on the best of days in the best caster’s hand.


Mark

[NorcalBob]

Nothing wrong with "fast" action rods.
Nothing wrong with "slow" action rods.
Nothing wrong with "medium" action rods.
I use them all, and enjoy them all. I pick a rod action suitable for what I like to do, and how I like to fish at that given moment. I usually like a "fast" action rod when I'm indicator nymphing and chucking split shot and air resistant indicators. I usually like a "slow" action rod when I'm tossing tiny dry flies to selective trout. And I ALWAYS use a "fast" action rod in the salt because many times you have got to get a long cast fired out quickly and that's tough to do with a slow action rod. Each rod action has it's benefits & liabilities. None are inherently bad and none are inherently good.

[ldr]

Some thoughts on rod actions…

In the hands of the not so gifted/practiced caster, the faster action rod can help eliminate those nasty tailing loops (their associated wind knots and tangles) and facilitate the tighter loop. These rods will forgive some pretty frantic, “wristy” casting motions, allowing the less accomplished caster the opportunity to present flies without constant entanglements.

In the hands of an excellent caster, the faster rod can help create very tight, efficient loops and high line speeds that can punch a fly into the wind, improving both distance and accuracy. Distance, accuracy, wind efficiency, what’s not to like? It’s why many casting oriented fly fishers prefer faster action rods. Casting well is an earned joy, requiring thousands of hours of repetition, and there are those who just don’t want to sacrifice casting performance. I understand their motivation.

They are, however, making trade-offs. The costs of high line speeds include:
• Minimal rod loading at short distances. These rods really don’t load much without 20-30 ft. of fly line out of the rod tip.
• Less tippet protection. Hard hook sets and sudden runs are likely to create sad experiences.
• Less feel. Might call this the fun factor. Rods that bend in the tip just don’t feel the same as a mid or full flex rod when a fish is tugging.

As the rod action moves toward the parabolic, creating high line speeds is more challenging. The frantic casting mechanics will no longer work, necessitating the acquisition of better casting skill. Some experts think it’s probably a good idea to develop casting skills with a medium action rod. Casting is very much about feeling, and that sense of feeling the rod load is difficult (if not impossible) with very fast rods.

In a final attempt to get to some point, I don’t think fast =bad. I think fast action=high line speed, narrow loops, longer distance, improved accuracy, less feeling and less tippet protection. Fly rods are tools, and you should pick the right one for you and for the job that needs to be done. Small stream fishing doesn’t generally even offer the chance to create esthetically pleasing casting loops. Distance is rarely an issue, fish are typically on the small side, and I want the rod to bend to cork...not a fast action scenario. Bigger water, bigger fish, bigger flies, bigger wind, Shane’s Z-axis is looking pretty good.

[lucfish]

NorcalBob said: Nothing wrong with "fast" action rods.
Nothing wrong with "slow" action rods.
Nothing wrong with "medium" action rods.
I use them all, and enjoy them all. I pick a rod action suitable for what I like to do, and how I like to fish at that given moment. I usually like a "fast" action rod when I'm indicator nymphing and chucking split shot and air resistant indicators. I usually like a "slow" action rod when I'm tossing tiny dry flies to selective trout. And I ALWAYS use a "fast" action rod in the salt because many times you have got to get a long cast fired out quickly and that's tough to do with a slow action rod. Each rod action has it's benefits & liabilities. None are inherently bad and none are inherently good. Couldn't have said it better myself!!!

[209er]

Does fast equal bad? Not if you don't know the difference. Nowhere do I cast much further than 40' (cause I can't) be it on the Missouri, Owens, or my local. I just wade closer if I have to. My weapon of choice is either a 4 or 5wt Sage sp. I consider it a medium although I thought I wanted an xp once upon a time. I would like to find another gfl. 209er

[Swanee]

Fast =bad? Not to me. I like to throw loops with a little extra power to set up a drift with the mend already on the water and then stack some more if I have too. Then if there is wind or a " have to" situation where you need a longer cast, I can force it (or try) to reach a fish. If the fish is straight down stream, I'll use the power to snap the line back toward me putting some slack between me and the fish and finish with the rod high, then lower it when the drift gets in the critical zone.
There is a down side for small tippets and and small fish feel really small, but big water and 2 0r 3 flies with an indicator or lead, I'll take the fast rod out and leave my slow 2 wt for for another situation.
Just my $.02
Swanee

[Sasha]

For me Fast = Bad on my small stuff; you know those little 0wt rods I oh so love. On my bigger rods such as my 5wt rods Med/Fast = Good. On my even heavier rods Fast = Good. I don’t think I would want to try to battle a Steelhead or Chinook in a large fast river with a very soft rod. But hey what do I know; I am no expert, just a guy that likes to fish and knows what I like and don't like.

[Ming Moua]

For me it all boils down to one thing, I choose or buy a rod that can do just about everything I want it to do when I'm out fishing. Pretty much, my fishing environment shapes me . But I personally endure the fast action rods....
With fast action rods,- it allows me to get distance if i needed to,-handle sinking lines,-cast heavier flyz or chuck and duck rigs, it can also present flyz like a 2wt, cast tailing loops, hook the bushes in the back of me or even hooking myself, cast to a bluegill or a 18 inch trout, whip it out for a short or long distance casting competition.....I don't know the list can go on and on......but Fast=all the above for me.....What every feels good is the way to go.......
Ming

[hip]

When you say forums I take it you mean mostly Trout forums.
Fast rods + salt water = good and the salt water forums will echo that notion.

Personally I'm all over the place when it comes to fly fishing (Trout to Tuna) and my rod selection, tapers reflect that.

I like to make up my mind for myself about what works or doesn't work and have no problem fishing the exact opposite of what the forums or industry say I should be fishing.

As long as I'm having fun challenging myself you could hand me a broomstick or a wet noodle of a rod and I'll fish it. jon